Have we worn out the group build?

[RKic]

I've been keeping track of group builds on ARC for some time now and I can't help but notice that there is very little enthusiasm for builds once they begin. They're also not getting as much traffic as they used to?

There are likely multiple causes for this; too many builds going on at once, too many "broad spectrum" builds where it seems like everyone is doing their own thing, and a lack of traffic due to the build threads being moved waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy the heck down past all the armor/car/ship stuff which, lets face it. ARC does not attract a lot of those modelers.

But what I'm getting at is that maybe we ought to rein things in with the builds. Thoughts?

[Bigasshammm]

It's summer!

Although it can be some time between posts the race car fb has a ton of subjects and completed projects already. Likewise with a bunch of the other GBs. There may be too many of them but they all are fundamentally different. Gives people a goal to strive for instead of the open ended wip build.

[JFernandez]

I've just recently registered (some few months ago) and I found it really odd that the GB's were located so far down the forum lists!

Of course, it could be said that scrolling down a page doesn't take that long, but there are a lot of distractions on the way down!

So I do agree with your concern of the GB's at the near bottom of the forum - perhaps some behind the scenes magic could raise the GB's

forum location a bit higher?

Edited August 9, 2012 by JFernandez

[Emvar]

This is just me, but perhaps a separate forum for the Armour/ships and anything other than Aircraft might eliminate the clutter. I like building Armour but really don't care for it when I'm at an Aircraft site.

There are separate home pages for the other subjects.... maybe a separate forums might just do it.

This is my 2 cents.

Emil

[dmthamade]

A few things. Summer really slows down my building, not going to play with toys inside when the weather is so good. Some of the group builds may not appeal to a majority of builders, might be time to recycle some of the old GBs. Phanthom, Tomcats, F-16, Hornets are always popular in the in progress/display case/critique corner. I know, "not more grey jet stuff blah blah blah" but if you want to increase interest in the GBs, appeal to what's popular. Apologies in advance, Fairey Fruitbats and all their variants and Staggerwing biplanes might be the only thing you do but the GB potential is nil.

$0.02,

Don

[RKic]

This is just me, but perhaps a separate forum for the Armour/ships and anything other than Aircraft might eliminate the clutter. I like building Armour but really don't care for it when I'm at an Aircraft site.

There are separate home pages for the other subjects.... maybe a separate forums might just do it.

This is my 2 cents.

Emil

I agree entirely. When I want info about armor, or car models I don't turn to ARC. I think the whole ARC Armor and ARC Auto expansions were not the best idea. And the intertwined forums do make things cluttered.

[RKic]

But what I was driving at initially, and didn't phrase correctly, is that a lot of the builds don't have the sense of camaraderie that they once did. Something like the Desert Storm build from a few years back, or the A-6 build, or the Mustang Build, or the Pacific build seem to have a tight enough theme, where everybody feels like they're working on a component of a larger thing. Maybe this has more to do with the GB leaders and participants drumming up the feeling of community, but I don't know. I've seen far too many builds on here that really have no theme or common goal.

[Wayne S]

I agree entirely. When I want info about armor, or car models I don't turn to ARC. I think the whole ARC Armor and ARC Auto expansions were not the best idea. And the intertwined forums do make things cluttered.

Honestly I think you are both wrong. The way the forums are setup for cars, armour etc. is a way to bring attention to them. Not just them tho also Model Aircraft. Also it gives an area for people who share the same interest, to still interact with the same people. I certainly love Aircraft models the most, tho the other styles, help keep me interesting in my hobby.

Nothing wrong with those sections as in taking away from group builds. Like others have said the season might have some to do with it. Also representation/commercializing one group build forum I would think does have an effect.

Only thing I can see that might be effective, is the have group builds of interest hot linked to areas of same likeness. A jet style group build hot-linked in the jet forums. Tho it is really up-to the admins of group builds to get the info etc. out there, it is their baby sort of speaking.

[phantom]

Think a lot has to do with the subject. My Enterprise GB last year had small interest, the Ghost town did pretty good but I think the amount of prizes offered by the great sponsors helped alot!!!!

Have to tell you, with one exception this year and a commission last year EVERYTHING I have built has been for a group build.

Perhaps raising the group build section might help, but it IS right next to buy and sell......one section I check ALL the time. (for the next group build) . But as others have mentioned, it IS summer. Building interest IS down till the winter, but even then every GB is at least 6 months long which takes care of that problem.

Things I know will help. If your modding the GB YOU have to keep the interest up. When someone finishes something in YOUR group build YOU have to say something whether its great or blows dead bears. Something else. People say they don't care about prizes but even still the ones with prizes get more traffic. If YOUR running the GB YOU need to get in contact with sponsors. Even if its from your own stash. And be ready to PAY for the out going prize postage. This is a problem for many for obvious reasons.

A few people have asked me about the late starts of recent GBs. Nothing I or the other GB mods can do about that but remind the guy with thread starting abilites. And that dude does have a life beyond ARC. Hopefully now that he is back from vacation he can start up the latest two GBs.

When you want to run a GB, YOU have to run it. Its not that hard but does take a hour or two every week. Read everyones posts and comment when needed. Everytime you comment it puts your GB at the top of the "View New Content page". Just like when you "bump".

But if you want to start a GB, think of something that a lot of people will want to do. Sometimes what we think will be popular (like armor GB) gets HUGE "Yes I will build something" traffic, but next to zero entries. Well thats life I guess. People say they are going to partake but then don't. Life gets in the way above the hobby.

[jester292]

Good suggestions, Phantom. I'm modding the Simple Times GB, and until we can get all the GB entries and participants into one location its hard to track who is doing what. Communication and support can be difficult until its formally organized.

Aaron

[AX 365]

I really like the group builds. Unless there are pressing circumstances, I participate in the ones that strike my fancy. I've built 16 aircraft in 11 group builds. I just started #17 for the 12th build that's not set up in the forum yet (CF-100 for the Living History GB). There have been many GBs that I never took a look at or even considered entering. Just because a GB has no interest for me, it doesn't mean that others aren't chomping at the bit to enter and complete a model. There's something for everyone,

Winning a prize is nice but that's not the reason I enter. I enter to actually complete a model. If I win a prize, that's just an added bonus.

Is there such a thing as too many group builds running at the same time? Like Emil and others have said, timing is everything. Its summer. I don't devote the same time to building in the summer as I do over the other seasons.

I have no issue with where the GB thread is located in the forums. It takes all of three seconds to scroll to the bottom of the page to get to them. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows about them. I don't think the 'out of sight, out of mind' analogy fits here.

That's my perspective.

Mike

Edited August 10, 2012 by AX 365

[phantom]

Good suggestions, Phantom. I'm modding the Simple Times GB, and until we can get all the GB entries and participants into one location its hard to track who is doing what. Communication and support can be difficult until its formally organized.

Aaron

I Pm'd Steve a couple times now.

[CorsairMan]

I know, "not more grey jet stuff blah blah blah" but if you want to increase interest in the GBs, appeal to what's popular. Apologies in advance, Fairey Fruitbats and all their variants and Staggerwing biplanes might be the only thing you do but the GB potential is nil.

Wait a minute... there was a Fruitbat GB and I didn't know about it?!?!?

I did my first GB (Latin American) and I really enjoyed it. I am now in the Pac War build too. Summer is the likely culprit with the slow down.

[Emvar]

I agree entirely. When I want info about armor, or car models I don't turn to ARC. I think the whole ARC Armor and ARC Auto expansions were not the best idea. And the intertwined forums do make things cluttered.

Well I wouldn't want them eliminated, just not on an Aircraft forum. Maybe it is not feasible. I agree summer is not a good time to start or have a GB just because people have other stuff to do.... But there is a whole 'nuther half of the earth that is in the winter right now. I would think interest in subject matter is a huge factor too. MiGs F-4's F-14's etc.... just get overdone. There is a whole world of Fighters/Aircraft that really do not make it to the top here..... Brazil/Japan/Sweden/France/India/China/Europe have great indigenous Aircraft.... Not just fighters.

I guess someone does have to step up and Mod also...

I myself hate timed things.. I guess it is because of the work I do where every second is accounted for. So my finish rate is 1 for about 5 GBs I've joined.

[phantom]

W F-4's F-14's etc.... just get overdone.

Up till this point I agree with you 100%. With the F-4 crack I am now required by CCC-476.1 (Canadian Criminal code) to kick you right in the nuts.

[Emvar]

Up till this point I agree with you 100%. With the F-4 crack I am now required by CCC-476.1 (Canadian Criminal code) to kick you right in the nuts.

after I posted I figured you'd chomp.

Gotta have some good aim for that kick there......

[vince14]

A few things. Summer really slows down my building, not going to play with toys inside when the weather is so good. Some of the group builds may not appeal to a majority of builders, might be time to recycle some of the old GBs. Phanthom, Tomcats, F-16, Hornets are always popular in the in progress/display case/critique corner. I know, "not more grey jet stuff blah blah blah" but if you want to increase interest in the GBs, appeal to what's popular. Apologies in advance, Fairey Fruitbats and all their variants and Staggerwing biplanes might be the only thing you do but the GB potential is nil.

$0.02,

Don

Y'see, I'm exactly the opposite. No way I'm going to join a GB consisting of Phantoms, Tomcats, F-16's and Hornets. Too mainstream and boring for me. What we need is a good mix of GB's, which cater for a variety of tastes. Some which cater for the mass market, and some which cater for those who build less mainstream subjects.

Vince

[vince14]

I agree entirely. When I want info about armor, or car models I don't turn to ARC. I think the whole ARC Armor and ARC Auto expansions were not the best idea. And the intertwined forums do make things cluttered.

I thought the point of the Armour and Race Car GB's was to generate a number of models which could be turned into articles for the separate ARC Armour and ARC Auto sites, which would help drive up interest in those sites, which would generate more articles, which would mean eventually they would be able to stand on their own.

Vince

[Bigasshammm]

I don't see a problem at all with the armor ship or auto forums. It shows that ARC is ready to go bigger and branch out into all forms of modeling and not just aircraft. Sure there isn't much going on in those forums but they are in their infancy and need time to grow. Bashing them isn't going to help. Each forum has a tab that you an click to make it disappear which makes the page significantly smaller. So if you don't like auto or armor builds then close the tabs and you don't have to see the pages. It's that simple.

[Emvar]

I don't see a problem at all with the armor ship or auto forums. It shows that ARC is ready to go bigger and branch out into all forms of modeling and not just aircraft. Sure there isn't much going on in those forums but they are in their infancy and need time to grow. Bashing them isn't going to help. Each forum has a tab that you an click to make it disappear which makes the page significantly smaller. So if you don't like auto or armor builds then close the tabs and you don't have to see the pages. It's that simple.

No where did I bash them, I just said it was clutter and my opinion. Hey I'm all for diversity, but I go to an Armour site for things of that nature. There are other modelling sites who do the same, so at the end of the day it is just that..... my opinion. Does not make me right or wrong.

Emil

[Neo]

Weel as for the Armor auto and figure section of the forum theres a little thing i love thats call collapse the section !! (altought it dosent work on the mobile version :()

For the GB not being active Yes its Summer but since the Mod team came aboard this year we have been trying multiple aproches to GB propositions.

Personally i find there are too many GB running at once. When i first came to ARC i fell in love with the GB idea and 90% of my models where built there. The idea really is to look at the stach and fin something that fits the theme.

One thing about GB is that WIP threads are important its the hole point ! share what your doing in a specific subject! i see to many "Im going to build this for the gb" and 5 post and couple months later is the finished result! you dont need a GB for that ! (no offence Phantom)

oh and dont take all this to the Bank im in a pissy mood this week

Edited August 10, 2012 by Neo

[TaiidanTomcat]

It probably has more to do than just scrolling down, not even I'm that lazy.

Its the summer, and a transition time (BACK TO SCHOOL!!) Maybe its just a matter of there being a lot of GBs.

could also be just a combination of all the above factors.

[11bee]

Well I wouldn't want them eliminated, just not on an Aircraft forum. Maybe it is not feasible. I agree summer is not a good time to start or have a GB just because people have other stuff to do.... But there is a whole 'nuther half of the earth that is in the winter right now. I would think interest in subject matter is a huge factor too. MiGs F-4's F-14's etc.... just get overdone. There is a whole world of Fighters/Aircraft that really do not make it to the top here..... Brazil/Japan/Sweden/France/India/China/Europe have great indigenous Aircraft.... Not just fighters.

I guess someone does have to step up and Mod also...

I myself hate timed things.. I guess it is because of the work I do where every second is accounted for. So my finish rate is 1 for about 5 GBs I've joined.

I'm finding that things around here appear to be slowing down in general, not sure if it is a summer thing or bigger issues. Per the above, I also find that unless you are building one of the "kewl" aircraft (Tomcat, P-51, anything with a swastika or one of the cute little grey jets) no one really seems interested in your work. I've seen lots of really nice builds of less "kewl" aircraft go completely unnoticed. Kinda makes one want to pull up and move on. Contrast that with a post on anything regarding the beloved Tomcat (YAWN) which immediately generates dozens of comments and hundreds / thousands of views.

I see no reason why we can't have ship, auto, armor forums all co-exist with aircraft. The current setup seems pretty efficient. The only drawback is that these forums seem dead. Posts sit for weeks without any acknowledgement, gathering at most 30-40 views.

I used to spend 80-90% of my modeling-related internet browsing on this site. These days, I might swing by for 5-10 minutes at best. Just seems a bit stagnant here. Hopefully things improve once summer is over.

[Sebastijan]

Well I'm just hoping its summertime problem. I am currently moderator of Iran-Iraq war GB and when the poll was put here about half a year ago, almost 30 people showed interest in participating. Now there's just a handful building (or at least showing progress), which kind of makes me disapointed as a mod. I also managed to get 3 sponsors for the build, meaning 15 free decal sheets given to the guys that finished something... And it's fascinating as this GB includes aircraft from US, USSR and France in always attractive desert camos... Once again, I'm just hoping it's summer's guilt <_<

[bashace]

It's all about the prizes, people like having an incentive to push them over the hump to get a project finished. There are those who do very well seeing a project all the way through, then there are people like me who get to a point and lose focus due to work or life getting in the way. I believe the latter is a good percentage of people who join group builds. To keep the half hearted modelers focused in these group builds, you gotta keep a "carrot" out in front of them. Look at the prize offerings for the Desert Storm Group Build and tell me that had nothing to do with the number of particapants. If there is an easier way for GB moderators (a lot of people are too shy to ask for donations) to solicate prize donations (carrots), I believe we would see more activity in the builds.