Ishthe47guy Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/22/22010858-jet-wing-strikes-building-at-johannesburg-airport?lite One of the few times I read the comments left by readers is if it has to do with aviation. You can always tell the ones left by aviation professionals. All the other comments just cause me to further loose my faith in humanity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Devilleader501 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 There are some genuinely ignorant people out there. Such is the social networking sites of today. Does make one wonder how so many foolish people survive in a world like ours. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) I dunno Chris, some of them are really funny. the rest just wow.. about the accident, it looks like they went straight on the taxiway instead of turning left to line up with runway 03L. Edited December 23, 2013 by dylan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Nice size comparison pic. Look at the size of the engines and wing vs the building: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 The first headline I read on my Google News sections was Airliner Crashes into Building at Johannesburg Airport A British Airways 747 slammed into a two story apartment building.. Not having seen any other news sections, I thought this was a late breaking report on a deadly catastrophe. Glad it was "only" a minor incident with no injuries. Nice sensational headlines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I understand that there were four people injured in the building ... All non life threatening ... -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viscount806x Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) As always, an investigation will reveal the truth in the fullness of time. Spare a thought for the flight deck crew who will be having a truly awful Christmas now with this hanging over them. And the poor engineering hit team who will be away from home as a result of this also. My own experience of this by a close mate who was skipper on a similar incident reminds me how bad these things can be. He was thankfully exonerated since the airfield had WIP (work in progress) and had badly marked up temporary airfield charts and the taxiways to reflect the hazards. It left him in a bad state all the same. Edited December 23, 2013 by viscount806x Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Oh man, that's gonna leave a scar... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 that will buff out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Guess the pilot will be looking for a new job come January ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim S Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Must have been like a bad dream sitting on that side of the plane looking out the window... Bummer. Jim S Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 And the poor engineering hit team who will be away from home as a result of this also. Most airlines have local engineering teams stationed at major hubs, so the guys fixing it will all live within the local area. Vince Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bzn20 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) These local engineering teams? Teams? Its just a Station manager some contract staff,cleaners and SAA people contracted for handling or their version of Swissport. They wont be repairing this. It will be a fly away pack up and guys from LHR, SAA or even Boeing that could get the contract. The guy in the right seat has the responsibility of the right wing unless some thing has changed recently. If the left seat was in control all he can ask is if its ok on the right................ Unless he didn't! And why was it there on that taxiway in the first place? There is a lot money to be spent on this repair. Some people will be going to look at it soon. Edited December 23, 2013 by bzn20 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fly-n-hi Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) Guess the pilot will be looking for a new job come January ;)/>/> No, he won't. He'll get a letter in his file and some re-training. It was a dumb mistake but the guy doesn't need to lose his job for it. The guy in the right seat has the responsibility of the right wing unless some thing has changed recently. If the left seat was in control all he can ask is if its ok on the right... Not really. The safe operation of the aircraft falls squarely on the captain. He didn't need the FO to tell him he wasn't going to clear that building. I haven't seen the taxi chart of that airport but I'll bet my next paycheck that it was labeled on the chart that aircraft with a wingspan greater than x are prohibited on that taxiway. Sounds like it was just a dumb mistake.Plus, I imagine that you can't see the wingtip from the cockpit on a 747. I don't know for sure, though. And it doesn't matter. If you have to check for building clearance on a taxiway that should be your first clue that something is wrong. Edited December 23, 2013 by Fly-n-hi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/22/22010858-jet-wing-strikes-building-at-johannesburg-airport?lite quoted from the link above: A spokeswoman for the airport told NBC News that the passengers were being put up in hotels overnight. Hope the hotels weren't next to a taxiway... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) No, he won't. He'll get a letter in his file and some re-training. It was a dumb mistake but the guy doesn't need to lose his job for it. Not really. The safe operation of the aircraft falls squarely on the captain. He didn't need the FO to tell him he wasn't going to clear that building. I haven't seen the taxi chart of that airport but I'll bet my next paycheck that it was labeled on the chart that aircraft with a wingspan greater than x are prohibited on that taxiway. Sounds like it was just a dumb mistake. He could lose his job, in an airline like British Airways a dumb mistake that takes off a good portion of the wing of a multi- million dollar plane will likely lead to an end of a career(s). Yes, the Captain is in charge of the safe movement and operation of his aircraft but that doesn't relieve the rest of the crew of responsibility. This error is the result of a series of mistakes, not just one. I teach Human Factors in Aviation, according to the latest info I received for the training I provide the pilots of the Boeing 747 Dreamliner, who landed at the wrong airport several weeks ago, are out of work. Edited December 24, 2013 by Scooby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yardbird78 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 It is pretty obvious that he was on the wrong taxiway. If 747 size aircraft were in the habit of using this runway, this would have happened a long time ago. The big, unanswered question is, "Why was he on THAT particular taxiway"? Darwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) Most airlines have local engineering teams stationed at major hubs, so the guys fixing it will all live within the local area. Vince I doubt there is a team there that can fix this damage. Looks like the outer spar is damaged. If this can be fixed Boeing likely will be doing the repair. Best info I have found on it is ere: http://blog.seattlepi.com/flyinglessons/2013/12/23/wrong-taxi-by-ba-747-crew-takes-a-bite-out-of-building/ Yeah, I know it is a blog. Edited December 24, 2013 by Scooby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) Double post Edited December 24, 2013 by Scooby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fly-n-hi Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) He could lose his job, in an airline like British Airways a dumb mistake that takes off a good portion of the wing of a multi- million dollar plane will likely lead to an end of a career(s). Yes, the Captain is in charge of the safe movement and operation of his aircraft but that doesn't relieve the rest of the crew of responsibility. This error is the result of a series of mistakes, not just one. I teach Human Factors in Aviation, according to the latest info I received for the training I provide the pilots of the Boeing 747 Dreamliner, who landed at the wrong airport several weeks ago, are out of work. I think you meant the 747 Dreamlifter. Did they lose their jobs? Maybe. Those pilots who fly the Dreamlifter are either Polar Airlines or Atlas Airlines pilots contracted out by Boeing...I can't recall at the moment. I don't know much about them but airlines like that usually have no unions or very weak unions. I regularly hear horror stories from pilots who used to work for those kind of cargo outfits. Stories like guys getting fired because they called in sick or because they refused to fly an aircraft that had some shady maintenance performed. So comparing BA pilots (with a strong union) to Polar or Atlas pilots is like comparing apples to oranges.And for the record I'm not bashing on Atlas or Polar. There are alot of great pilots flying for them. But the difference is hostile managements vs non hostile managements...or better union protection. And I'm not trying to make this some kind of pro union speech, either. I'm just telling it like it is. I fly for a major airline so I'm speaking from an insiders point of view. Sure, it is technically possible this BA pilot could lose his job. He won't. And nor should he...unless something like Alcohol or recklessness was a contributing factor. If it was they bye bye and good riddance. And as for this being a crew thing? Sure. This situation does beg the question of why 3 or 4 pilots (don't forget the 1 or 2 IROs sitting in the jumpseats) never saw what was about to happen. But its ultimately going to fall on the captain as it should. I'm sure BA has their planes insured and I'm sure this isn't the first incident they've had. I can cite you dozens of example of pilots clipping wings on the ground taxiing, banging into ground equipment near the gate or striking the tail on TO and landing with no jobs lost. Heck, we have a guy who banged a tail on Take-off and hit the top of the tail going under a bridge! He didn't lose his job. This sort of thing happens alot more than you think, unfortunately. This is no different. And even if BA management did go after his job they'd have to fight the pilot's union. Good luck with that. This will sound crazy to those outside of the industry but sometimes an incident like this is a good thing. Here's why. This will open up the eyes of many other pilots who might be falling into a state of complacency. They might see that it really is important to study the taxi charts or to speak up if they see something that doesn't look right. Experience is learning from your own mistakes and wisdom is learning from someone else's mistakes. Edited December 24, 2013 by Fly-n-hi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I think you meant the 747 Dreamlifter. Did they lose their jobs? Maybe. Those pilots who fly the Dreamlifter are either Polar Airlines or Atlas Airlines pilots contracted out by Boeing...I can't recall at the moment. I don't know much about them but airlines like that usually have no unions or very weak unions. I regularly hear horror stories from pilots who used to work for those kind of cargo outfits. Stories like guys getting fired because they called in sick or because they refused to fly an aircraft that had some shady maintenance performed. So comparing BA pilots (with a strong union) to Polar or Atlas pilots is like comparing apples to oranges. I fly for a major airline so I'm speaking from an insiders point of view. Sure, it is technically possible this BA pilot could lose his job. He won't. And nor should he...unless something like Alcohol or recklessness was a contributing factor. If it was they bye bye and good riddance. And as for this being a crew thing? Sure. This situation does beg the question of why 3 or 4 pilots (don't forget the 1 or 2 IROs sitting in the jumpseats) never saw what was about to happen. But its ultimately going to fall on the captain as it should. I'm sure BA has their planes insured and I'm sure this isn't the first incident they've had. I can cite you dozens of example of pilots clipping wings on the ground taxiing, banging into ground equipment near the gate or striking the tail on TO and landing with no jobs lost. This is no different. And even if BA management did go after his job they'd have to fight the pilot's union. Good luck with that. Yes, I meant Dreamlifter. I have one sitting behind me, you'd think I would get that right. I can cite a lot of incidents where pilots have clipped wings as well and i dont think any lost their jobs. I think this one will be different, they embedded the wing into a brick building and sustained major structural damage. I could be wrong, but I think the outer spar is gonzo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vvac201 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 that will buff out Ouch! Wonder how much lateral stress this put on the wing box? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I love the expertise on this forum! Sweet pics. Aaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yardbird78 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I love the expertise on this forum! Sweet pics. Aaron My EXPERT analysis of the wing tip is, "It's broke and will need some fixin' before flyin' ag'in". Darwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Devilleader501 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 VMA-214 had a similar situation about 6 months ago. They were pulling an aircraft from high power and the wing clipped a Ballard post. That thing is still in the shop. They say that the lateral force of the hit destroyed the area where the wing mounts to the fuselage. I would hope the pilots don't lose their jobs. This is an unfortunate accident and hopefully everyone learns from it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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