Specter1075 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Hello all, I'm starting a F-117 build in 1:48 and wondering about loadouts. There isn't a lot of info out there, which I guess makes sense. It's my hope to load it up with something other than the GBU-27 that it's most famous for using. I know it was cleared for the GBU-31, but I believe that happened right at the end of it's service life, and I can't find anything indicating they dropped any in combat. There are rumors that the F-117 was used over Syria, but I can't find much definitive, and certainly nothing about what they were dropping. Alternatively, I think the idea of modeling the graphite bombs used in Allied Force would be neat, but again, there is very little about what they looked like. I assume they would look similar to a standard CBU, but is that correct? The only detail I found was that it (allegedly) used the same dispenser as the CBU-97. How many would have been carried? I do not know how likely it is that this information is available, but if there is something to be learned, it will be here with you folks. Thanks very much! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 If you want to go oddball, heard a podcast interview with an ex-117 pilot who said that the aircraft had a limited A2A capability. Assume this would have been used on Russian AWACS? No info provided on weapons but since the aircraft didn’t have a radar, I’d guess we are talking AIM-9’s? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boom175 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Put Some AIM-9's in it. One of the original missions was to use it to shoot down Soviet AWACS. Just like Red Storm Rising. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Im with you on this one the F-117A has been done to death over the years and they are always loaded up with the GBU-27 bombs. I think the Italeri 1/48 kit comes with some dubious accuracy B-61 bombs and the Academy 1/72 kit comes with an AIM-9 option along with the GBU-27s. I think the "problem" with it is the bay was so small it limits what you can do with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A-10 LOADER Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 As far as the CBU-97's go, she would only be able to carry two of them. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Specter1075 Posted October 29, 2020 Author Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) Thank you everyone for the replies! I agree that the AIM-9s would make for a pretty unique look, but when I looked up more information about that, I found conflicting reports about the idea that they could be used to kill AWACS. The most convincing argument I found was this: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/34169/no-the-f-117-never-had-air-to-air-capability-but-one-did-get-a-radar The jist is that there would be no way for a F-117 to close to within 5 miles of an AWACS with no radar, visually acquire it, and then somehow do anything other than launch the AIM-9 in its general direction. The idea was something spoken of early on in the program, but never considered at all as viable. So, I think adding AIM-9's would be more of a "What If" rather than a unique realistic loadout. So I guess I'm sticking with air to ground. Without any visual reference to the black-out bomb, I'm hesitant to throw a couple CBU-97s into the bay, as neat as it may be. If I can't find more information, and assuming they fit, I may go with a couple GBU-31's. I can find a couple pictures of them being dropped, though they look like training rounds only. Edited October 29, 2020 by Specter1075 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hemspilot Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Well, the F-117 are still flying. Two were seen landing as recently as last February... So I'd assume that any modern drop weaponry with independent guidance that fits in its weapons bay could be a go. AWACS put out an incredible amount of electromagnetic emissions over a vast spectrum, and with the recently added Eagle Eye IRST pods in a stealthy configuration it would be entirely possible to find an AWACS. Edited October 30, 2020 by hemspilot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A-10 LOADER Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 hours ago, hemspilot said: Well, the F-117 are still flying. Two were seen landing as recently as last February... So I'd assume that any modern drop weaponry with independent guidance that fits in its weapons bay could be a go. AWACS put out an incredible amount of electromagnetic emissions over a vast spectrum, and with the recently added Eagle Eye IRST pods in a stealthy configuration it would be entirely possible to find an AWACS. True but, I don't think they are being utilized as air to ground test beds. I think they are being used for their LO or newer LO technology, as adversary's against the F-35's. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Da SWO Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 20 hours ago, Specter1075 said: Thank you everyone for the replies! I agree that the AIM-9s would make for a pretty unique look, but when I looked up more information about that, I found conflicting reports about the idea that they could be used to kill AWACS. The most convincing argument I found was this: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/34169/no-the-f-117-never-had-air-to-air-capability-but-one-did-get-a-radar The jist is that there would be no way for a F-117 to close to within 5 miles of an AWACS with no radar, visually acquire it, and then somehow do anything other than launch the AIM-9 in its general direction. The idea was something spoken of early on in the program, but never considered at all as viable. So, I think adding AIM-9's would be more of a "What If" rather than a unique realistic loadout. So I guess I'm sticking with air to ground. Without any visual reference to the black-out bomb, I'm hesitant to throw a couple CBU-97s into the bay, as neat as it may be. If I can't find more information, and assuming they fit, I may go with a couple GBU-31's. I can find a couple pictures of them being dropped, though they look like training rounds only. Another plane could target the AWACS and bring a 117 in for the kill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Specter1075 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 I agree, its possible they could be vectored to their targets, but nothing I've read makes this seem like more than a theoretical concept. I would like to stick to things that we know were operationally used by the F-117. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 In Desert Storm they dropped some inert GBU-12s on Iraqi equipment that the Iraqis had purposely placed close to cultural monuments. Regards, Murph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Ooooh. Thought experiment - "If an AWACS platform operates on a known/ predicatable frequency/bandwidth, why couldn't you tune a anti-radiation missile to home in on those transmissions? If so, why couldn't a F-117 employ such a weapon?" It all sounds like the stuff Tom Clancy wrote about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Da SWO Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Murph said: In Desert Storm they dropped some inert GBU-12s on Iraqi equipment that the Iraqis had purposely placed close to cultural monuments. Regards, Murph Interesting, what did they drop in Panama during JUST CAUSE? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkin mad Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 On 10/30/2020 at 11:37 AM, hemspilot said: Well, the F-117 are still flying. Two were seen landing as recently as last February... 2 were seen in daylight at Miramar just a couple of weeks ago...... https://theaviationist.com/2020/10/21/c ... yesterday/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Da SWO said: Interesting, what did they drop in Panama during JUST CAUSE? According to WAPJ two F-117s dropped two GBU-27A/B bombs with BLU-109B/I-2000 warheads (aka HAVE VOID). There were six F-117s on the mission, the other four returned without dropping ordnance. edit: actually eight on the mission, two were hot spares which turned back after the first AAR. The remaining six were over target with only two releasing ordnance. . Edited November 1, 2020 by habu2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Camus272 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 11 hours ago, barkin mad said: 2 were seen in daylight at Miramar just a couple of weeks ago...... https://theaviationist.com/2020/10/21/c ... yesterday/ Yep, and one was operating out of Nellis on Friday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 I thought they retired the F-117 a few years ago Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sarathi S. Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ElectroSoldier said: I thought they retired the F-117 a few years ago You and everybody else. Turns out they were "retired" instead of retired. Edited November 2, 2020 by Sarathi S. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) Yeah it sounds a lot like what I did when I retired. Still work, but I am officially retired from work. I would love to know whats going on there. Ill bet that will be a story and a half nobody will believe when its no longer a state secret. Edited November 2, 2020 by ElectroSoldier Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Camus272 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 46 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said: Yeah it sounds a lot like what I did when I retired. Still work, but I am officially retired from work. I would love to know whats going on there. Ill bet that will be a story and a half nobody will believe when its no longer a state secret. Speculation is that they are being used as low-observable aggressors to train pilots against 5th generation targets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 On 10/30/2020 at 11:37 AM, hemspilot said: Well, the F-117 are still flying. Two were seen landing as recently as last February... So I'd assume that any modern drop weaponry with independent guidance that fits in its weapons bay could be a go. AWACS put out an incredible amount of electromagnetic emissions over a vast spectrum, and with the recently added Eagle Eye IRST pods in a stealthy configuration it would be entirely possible to find an AWACS. Not necessarily. They would still have to test drop the weapon, for instance a JDAM as it might not react well to the airflow around the aircraft when the doors are open... Stranger things have happened. Then you need to make a new delivery profile and put it into the protected memory of the guidance computer. Its a lot of guys working for a lot of hours to make it drop a JDAM even though its almost certain that it can, you have to make sure and program the computer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 On 10/29/2020 at 3:10 PM, Specter1075 said: Thank you everyone for the replies! I agree that the AIM-9s would make for a pretty unique look, but when I looked up more information about that, I found conflicting reports about the idea that they could be used to kill AWACS. The most convincing argument I found was this: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/34169/no-the-f-117-never-had-air-to-air-capability-but-one-did-get-a-radar The jist is that there would be no way for a F-117 to close to within 5 miles of an AWACS with no radar, visually acquire it, and then somehow do anything other than launch the AIM-9 in its general direction. The idea was something spoken of early on in the program, but never considered at all as viable. So, I think adding AIM-9's would be more of a "What If" rather than a unique realistic loadout. So I guess I'm sticking with air to ground. Without any visual reference to the black-out bomb, I'm hesitant to throw a couple CBU-97s into the bay, as neat as it may be. If I can't find more information, and assuming they fit, I may go with a couple GBU-31's. I can find a couple pictures of them being dropped, though they look like training rounds only. An interesting article, and a lot seems true. It’s doubtful that a F-117 could get within Sidewinder range of an AWACS without being detected. They aren’t invisible and the radar is quite powerful when you’re that close. Then there is the real issue of becoming very visible when the weapons bay doors are opened. But on the other side of the equation, it would probably not be an issue to find the AWACS. Data link from another platform could do it, but onboard RWR gear could too. That big radar on the AWACS is a giant beacon when it’s in use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said: , you have to make sure and program the computer Why can't they just spend a few minutes with a slide rule then take a razor blade and scratch lines on the canopy transparency like guys on the carrier Dad was on did in the late 1950s/early 1960s with some ADs and, maybe, A4s? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Why would you go thru all the time effort and expense to integrate A2A weapons when USAF already had multiple platforms more suited for the job? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 hours ago, southwestforests said: Why can't they just spend a few minutes with a slide rule then take a razor blade and scratch lines on the canopy transparency like guys on the carrier Dad was on did in the late 1950s/early 1960s with some ADs and, maybe, A4s? Did he slide the canopy back and smoke a stogy after he was feet wet too? 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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