1/32 Su-25 frogfoot from china

[AnthonyWan]

I'm not a Su-25 expert, but it looks alright to me.

Terry

What he said..Look we got a new kit at least..It looks like a damn Su-25..

[janman]

I hate it when it happens, but this is a case where they need to delay the release and go back to the drawing boards.

From the bottom of the heart, I truly hope they would do that. This kit so needs it.

Once again, even the transparencies don't seem to match the real thing. Berkut's first drawing comparison doesn't necessarily convey it, but the excellent Airliners.net photo posted earlier reveals it. Not bad, but still inaccurate.

Screw the drawings, look at some good side view photo and it comes so obvious they didn't get this ugly baby right.

[loftycomfort]

I'm not particularly interested in the Su-25, so even if the dimensions are off, it doesn't really bother me. But for shites and giggles, I made a graphic that compares the side profiles of Mr Song's model and that of the real thing. Since the graphic contains material from airliners, I am putting the hyperlink here instead of embedding it into the post:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/loftyc...u25-compare.jpg

Cheers,

Terry

[Jeff]

Well, *** is wrong with trumpeter? I mean from the first pic it looks wrong already and the length, *** is that? I was going to buy their Mig-23 but the square (read lego) intakes just doesn't look right to me. I am also interested in their 1:48 SU-24... but I mean ... how the F did they screwed up again and again, making things worst than the last one? Even I have loads of money I can't just buy their kit like this ... too many major errors, and I am not a rivet counter. Looks like I have to stick with the Su-24 streem kit (which I know is beyond my skills to build plus I don't have the precious time here in HK to build a short run kit like this), the Zvezda mig-23MLD which I luckily pick up in a local toy store (need to re-engrave) and the trusty Kopro 1:48 Su-25 which I bought a few ones knowing they will be out of production. I just hope trumpeter puts something that's reasonable shape wise, and this Su-25 is a major let down.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Jeff

[janman]

I'm not particularly interested in the Su-25, so even if the dimensions are off, it doesn't really bother me. But for shites and giggles, I made a graphic that compares the side profiles of Mr Song's model and that of the real thing. Since the graphic contains material from airliners, I am putting the hyperlink here instead of embedding it into the post:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/loftyc...u25-compare.jpg

Cheers,

Terry

Excellent, Terry!

I had been staring at these two photos quite a while - in a disbelief.

I understand if it looks like a Frogfoot for some people, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it really is an accurate model of a real Su-25. I could say the same about every Viper kit I've ever seen - accurate or not - but I won't, since that would insult the people who care about F-16.

[KursadA]

The way I see it, the kit needs a "plug" between the cockpit and the intakes. The proportions of the rear fuselage look right to me, it is just that the whole fuselage needs to be moved back a little. Someone else with more time could do some Photoshop work and let us know if this really is the case.

[Jeff]

I'm not particularly interested in the Su-25, so even if the dimensions are off, it doesn't really bother me. But for shites and giggles, I made a graphic that compares the side profiles of Mr Song's model and that of the real thing. Since the graphic contains material from airliners, I am putting the hyperlink here instead of embedding it into the post:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/loftyc...u25-compare.jpg

Cheers,

Terry

If you are familiar with the Su-25 and built a Su-25 model (1:48 kopro or 1:72 zvezda, revell), you will immediately know the aircraft is too "fat" and it sits too low.

[Laurent]

Someone else with more time could do some Photoshop work and let us know if this really is the case.

Superheat ? Are you there ?

the Zvezda mig-23MLD which I luckily pick up in a local toy store (need to re-engrave)

The front fuselage may bother you: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index....howtopic=185555

Edited March 19, 2010 by Laurent

[Jeff]

Just to add, I think the product line of Trumpeter is expanding too rapidly... Does this sound something familiar of what you heard in financial news? :)

[Laurent]

Does this sound something familiar of what you heard in financial news? :)

Trumpeter has invented neomodelism

[Jeff]

Superheat ? Are you there ?

The front fuselage may bother you: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index....howtopic=185555

The front fuselage looks slightly off but not a major off. It's just the windshield that's fat, but the entire shape of the aircraft still looks shape-wise acceptable. By the way, what happens to RV-Resin with their "upcoming" 1:72 Mig-23?

[Isaac]

I'm not even a jet guy let alone a russian aircraft guy and I thought it looked to short.

I really wonder how these errors occur? I mean you are making a 3d model which means you must have a lot of references. Right?

[dylan]

just two suggestions mr Song

1 leave all those open access panels CLOSED!!!! 99% of us will want them closed and they NEVER FIT RIGHT

2 keep it simple!!! get the shape right and leave all the gimmicky little details to the aftermarket.

Dylan

[ChernayaAkula]

Usually, I'm one of the first to ask for a scale-down to 1/72, but in this case I'll pass.

Yeah, it looks like a Su-25, but, then again, so do the "artist's impressions" of the 1980s.

[KursadA]

The way I see it, the kit needs a "plug" between the cockpit and the intakes. The proportions of the rear fuselage look right to me, it is just that the whole fuselage needs to be moved back a little. Someone else with more time could do some Photoshop work and let us know if this really is the case.

I worked with the Airliners.net reference photo and Song's side view photo, and I am now pretty much confident that this is the case. I will post some photos soon..

[Two Mikes]

The side profile with the access panels open is making this difficult to judge the "sit" of the model for me. I agree it is too short but I am also concerned that the sit of the model is not right. I know the Frogfoot leans back a bit but I can't tell if it is too much on the kit.

[B-1 Nut]

just two suggestions mr Song

1 leave all those open access panels CLOSED!!!! 99% of us will want them closed and they NEVER FIT RIGHT

2 keep it simple!!! get the shape right and leave all the gimmicky little details to the aftermarket.

Dylan

Two VERY smart points Dylan.

You can always cut 'em open easily, but you can't always close 'em up easily. Aftermarket will definitely take care of us in that regard.

[mingwin]

Eduard 1/32 BF109E too long & too fat, did they delay the release and go back to the drawing boards? hehe! you all say it's very nice, why? JUST WE ARE CHINESE?

not because chinese...

because of repeted offense by trumpeter (to the russian modeller comunity!)

name it

1/32 mig-23 (ok not that bad... but a lot of work to do!)

1/48 su-24

1/48 flagon's...

and so on!

and now, su-25...

did i have to tell more?

can you tell the same about eduard?

Edited March 19, 2010 by mingwin

[mingwin]

just two suggestions mr Song

1 leave all those open access panels CLOSED!!!! 99% of us will want them closed and they NEVER FIT RIGHT

2 keep it simple!!! get the shape right and leave all the gimmicky little details to the aftermarket.

Dylan

yeah!

that advice should be followed by every manufacturer!!!!

[KursadA]

Here are some comparison shots that I prepared. I believe the main problem is in the area between the cockpit and the leading edge of the wings.

First off; some words of thanks and encouragement to the talented Trumpeter designers Mr. Song and Mr. Gaoyue: thanks a lot for all your hard work on these kits and sharing your test shots. I personally think your kits are great; and Trumpeter is improving with every new kit. Regardless of how much criticism you get on these forums, problems such as this are not limited to Trumpeter kits: Literally every company in the scale modeling industry have had similar problems and will continue to do so. I hope we'll see fewer problems with Trumpeter kits in the future. Trumpeter has come a long way since the 1/32 Mig-15 kit!! Thanks again.

Some background on the methodology first: I used Mr. Song's sideview shots, and rescaled the Airliners.net reference image to match the lengths of different fuselage sections. I split the fuselage into three distinct sections: nose to canopy hinge, canopy hinge to wing leading edges, and wing leading edges to the tail.

Here is a comparison of the nose sections of Trumpeter kit and a real Su-25 photo. As I said, the photos are rescaled to match their lengths. I think the nose sections match pretty well:

UPDATE: I updated the nose section photos.

Here is a comparison of the rear section, from leading edges of the wing to aft. I think the match here is pretty good, too. The proportions look correct to me.

Here is where I think the problem is: the mid section (from canopy hinges to wing leading edges). I think the Trumpeter kit is shorter here. Since the lengths are significantly different, I chose to match the heights of the fuselage sections here to come up with comparably scaled images. Note how the rear airplane is longer in this section.

Edited March 19, 2010 by KursadA

[Laurent]

can you tell the same about eduard?

The Mirage IIIC has some accuracy issues (Mirage fans tend to prefer the Heller kit)... and they tool 1 jet kit every 5 years.

[pollie]

The older, R95 engined Su-25s have an air scoop at the bottom of the vertical stab. The version powered by the R195 engine have airscoops on top of the engine nacelles instead. The Trumpeter test shot has both....

[JeskiM]

Mr. Song:

What markings are planed for this release ?

- Matt

Edited March 19, 2010 by JeskiM

[Jinxter13]

If I may could someone compare those line drawings to the Su-39, perhaps it's a combo of the two the '25 and the -39...and somewhere they got ones specs mixed with the others, or is it that somehow the specs got misunderstood.

Is it me or does the example have too much of a bulge on the top of the nose? To me the real Frogfoots' nose is more flat on top.

[Jennings]

Rivets. All I see are rivets. Rivets, rivets everywhere.

ENOUGH with the rivets already!

J