Curt B Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Hi All, I'm just looking for opinions from folks who, preferably, have built both the 1/48 Tamiya F-4B, and any of the Zoukei-Mura F-4 series. I got the ZM F-4C and F-4S kits before the Tamiya F-4B came out, and I've held off getting any of the other ZM F-4 series or the Meng, hoping that Tamiya will eventually expand their F-4B into many more variants. Anyway, back to my question. If you were me, not having built any of the F-4 kits that I have, what would you suggest I build first? I'm concerned that if I build the Tamiya F-4B first, that this will potentially spoil me and then I won't want to do any of the ZM kits I have. So, would you build the ZM kits first, then the Tamiya, or do you think it really doesn't matter? I'm inclined to do the ZM kits first, figuring that if I can do a decent job with those, the Tamiya kit should be a breeze. But I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts and rationale for me. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) I have built multiples of the Z-M F-4s, (F-4Dx2, F-4E, F-4S, F-4C) and the Tamiya F-4B. While the F-4B is almost perfect, I would not let it keep you from building any Z-M F-4s unless you are an adherent to the nitpickers that seem to pick apart ever kit released. You have to remember the kits that we had before these, ESCI/ERTL, Italeri, Monogram, Revell, Hasegawa, etc. We used to build those and thought they were great. Now we have kits that that are advanced in surface detail, fit and overall quality and we don't seem to be able to be satisfied with them. Sure, they have some issues but doesn't every kit. (There are no perfect kits). Put the calipers away and build what you got in any order that you want. Edited January 8, 2023 by Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crash Test Dummy Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Britmodeller has a thread going on about a Tamiya kit announcement expected at the Nuremburg toy fair in February. It would be about the right time to announce another F-4 variant. If Tamiya announces an F-4C you might consider selling off your ZM kit of the plane if it's that big a deal to you. Otherwise build whatever you're in the mood for. I doubt Tamiya will ever issue an F-4S and even if they announce an F-4C you should still have time to build yours before they get one on the market. Personally I have a stack of Hasegawa kits to get through before I start looking at more Phantoms. I picked up an Academy F-4B when it was the first of the new tool Phantoms on the market and a variant Hasegawa didn't cover. I really didn't need or want a Tamiya F-4B, but bought one when I saw a deal too good to pass up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Build both at the same time and write here about the experience! Tamiya is an easier build, but I really enjoy ZM kits and like to support the company. Just wish they included pilots with their kits! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
is it windy yet? Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I started the ZM D, paused while building it to build the Tamiya B, and have gone back to the D. While the Tamiya kit is an easier build, it does not make the ZM kit inferior. I kind of bought into the whole zen approach to the ZM kit, and I do feel it left me with a more complete building experience. However looking at the kits on the shelf, they both look great. Just the Tamiya kit got there sooner with less effort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeneK Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 3 hours ago, is it windy yet? said: While the Tamiya kit is an easier build, it does not make the ZM kit inferior. Amen! But I appreciate that, like politics, there are many ARCers who are (very much) "One Sided". Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 As of right now, it's kind of a pointless question - Tamiya doesn't make the versions that ZM makes, and vice-versa. That may change in the future, but for now... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 Unfortunately all of the negative chatter about ZM has biased you. The ZM kits are great and are satisfying to build. In my hands the Tam B is a mere “schticle” better. I look at the various kits like chianti from different vineyards…it’s all good! Oh, I’ve built 2 Tam and 9 ZM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 3 hours ago, BillS said: Unfortunately all of the negative chatter about ZM has biased you. The ZM kits are great and are satisfying to build. In my hands the Tam B is a mere “schticle” better. I look at the various kits like chianti from different vineyards…it’s all good! Oh, I’ve built 2 Tam and 9 ZM. I thought the ZM kit was very well received by almost everybody. It seemed to me the only thing wrong with it was that the Tamiya kit exists. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Curt B Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 Thank you all for your opinions. These were EXACTLY the kind of words I was looking for from you! I think this tells me that I ought to just do the ZM F-4C first, and then see if that experience says let’s try another way or to just do the F-4S and then head on to the Tamiya. I appreciate the input, folks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 Heck, I am still building all the Hasegawa and Monogram Phantoms in my stash. Might do the Tamiya I have in there first, but I'm not tossing the old stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 36 minutes ago, phantom said: Heck, I am still building all the Hasegawa and Monogram Phantoms in my stash. Might do the Tamiya I have in there first, but I'm not tossing the old stuff. Me too. I just started a Monogram F-4D. Quite enjoying it so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeneK Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 18 hours ago, BillS said: I look at the various kits like chianti from different vineyards…it’s all good! I like your analogy. It's so nice to hear positive views! Gene Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geoawelch Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 On 1/9/2023 at 5:09 AM, Curt B said: Thank you all for your opinions. These were EXACTLY the kind of words I was looking for from you! I think this tells me that I ought to just do the ZM F-4C first, and then see if that experience says let’s try another way or to just do the F-4S and then head on to the Tamiya. I appreciate the input, folks! Tamiya isn’t the quickest at coming out with follow on versions, so I think you’ve made a wise decision. George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Well, you can't build a Tamiya F-4S or a ZM F-4B, so I don't quite understand why there is a dilemma regarding those two variants. There are USAF specific parts in the Bravo, so you may eventually be able to build a Tamiya F-4C, but no way to know how soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bashace Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 I have Phantoms from Eduard (Academy), Academy, Hasegawa, and ZM. Have "B" models already on the shelf, not going to add another just because it's Tamiya. They all build into decent looking Phantoms, some are a little more or less work than others, but still great kits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Curt B Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) On 1/10/2023 at 5:52 AM, Dave Roof said: Well, you can't build a Tamiya F-4S or a ZM F-4B, so I don't quite understand why there is a dilemma regarding those two variants. There are USAF specific parts in the Bravo, so you may eventually be able to build a Tamiya F-4C, but no way to know how soon. Hi Dave, and thanks for your response. Actually, the question was about the building experience, and not about the F-4 variants. I know that we've only got the F-4B available from Tamiya, though I am truly hoping, as I'm sure many of you all, that Tamiya will be doing multiple variants of the F-4 in the future. I realize that Tamiya does not have the best track record regarding offerings of multiple variants for many aircraft (their P-38J was a HUGELY hoped for P-38, and we were so lucky to have gotten that one already). I'm sure that projected sales have a great deal to do with how Tamiya picks the variants they do (or don't do), and the fact that Meng has just recently joined the F-4 free-for-all doesn't bode especially well for Tamiya production of multiple F-4 variants. We will see...but a Tamiya F-4E in 1/48 would be fantastic, and would be on my shelf as soon as it would be released, if it ever is. Edited January 12, 2023 by Curt B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Great topic! Built the Tamiya B and have the ZM S in the stash and want to build. I’ve held off a bit on the ZM kit, but don’t expect Tamiya to do a late S anytime soon. Decided to go all in with the ZM kit and aftermarket. Looks good, sounds good and everyone I know that’s built it, likes it. But it’s not the same as Tamiya. Unless Tamiya has one out in the next year, I’ll be building the ZM kit. Still debating if it’s worth using the Hypersonic fuselage corrections, or if I’ll screw it up and cost me the kit..: YMMV Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Curt B Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 24 minutes ago, Brian P: Fightertown Decals said: Great topic! Built the Tamiya B and have the ZM S in the stash and want to build. I’ve held off a bit on the ZM kit, but don’t expect Tamiya to do a late S anytime soon. Decided to go all in with the ZM kit and aftermarket. Looks good, sounds good and everyone I know that’s built it, likes it. But it’s not the same as Tamiya. Unless Tamiya has one out in the next year, I’ll be building the ZM kit. Still debating if it’s worth using the Hypersonic fuselage corrections, or if I’ll screw it up and cost me the kit..: YMMV Brian Thanks for your comments, Brian. Based partially on the responses here, I've decided to move ahead with my first F-4, the ZM F-4C. It will be interesting, for sure! I'm aware, vaguely, of the corrections you refer to. Those are too intense for me...and from what I've seen of completed ZM F-4s, the corrections are subtle, and the lack of 'fixing' won't make MY F-4C, to me, anyway, any less of a good model than it would be with the corrections. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scorvi Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 If you have the Z-M kit then build it.....It is along withe Academy are your best bet for an early C. Me Personally I have a Academy C with all the goodies so I am building that GOD forbid! Steve, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Curt B Posted September 25, 2023 Author Share Posted September 25, 2023 It's been a long time since I've even thought about this thread...and I forgot that I'd even started it until I got the notice of a new post. I've been in something of a model slump...I don't think I've touch a kit since one of my doggies went to the Rainbow Bridge...and that was in April. Before that, I'd been bouncing from kit to kit, starting, but not completing anything. I've even made it to the point of installing the engine intakes one both the Tamiya F-4B and the ZM F-4C. Honestly, I didn't recall much difference between the two F-4 kits, except that the Tamiya kit MAY be just the smallest bit better fitting in some areas. I've got WELL over a dozen kits that I've started but not completed, the latest being an Academy A-10C. My model room is a mess, and I need to get that sorted through before I even think about restarting any build! And I've definitely decided that I'm going to build all of my ZM F-4 kits! Eventually... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bozothenutter Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 On 1/10/2023 at 11:59 AM, geoawelch said: Tamiya isn’t the quickest at coming out with follow on versions, so I think you’ve made a wise decision. George They're not known for making every version of a kit either.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 I believe ZM F4 variant is different from Tamiya so yes I will build a ZM one. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bozothenutter Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 (edited) I recently saw a ZM F-4S I believe, where the grey colour REALLY showed off the error they made on the Phantom's behind (corrected on the long noses). Would not get a ZM without the correction set for it. 'Doh!...was on BM! The build by HABU12 is gorgeous mind! Edited September 29, 2023 by Bozothenutter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 Fortunately for those of us who don’t like the rear fuselage problem on the Z-M kits, Hypersonic has a beautiful correction for it. Thats a great looking F-4S! I’d like to know the builder’s technique for painting and weathering the TPS camouflage. That’s the only reason I haven’t started mine. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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