Starbuck Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I mean, it's just a skull and crossbones.... Skull and crossbones have permeated society to such a degree that you see them on almost anything and everything perceived to be "cool". Why? I dunno exactly, but maybe the question should be why are symbols of death, including the skull and crossbones emblem, so "attractive" to invoke the stiffness. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volzj Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Anyone want to address how VF-103 had the name change and Skull and Crossbones shoved down their throat when VF-84 went bye-bye? Hmmm..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Here is a link about the change-over... Sluggers to Jolly Rogers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robert61267 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Well, personally I'm with the thread starter (although the question could have been phrased a bit nicer). I've never understood what all of the fuss was about. Giveme the Pukin' Dogs or the Tophatters any day. Having said that, I do love the low viz schemes without the black tails. I like line jets, especially overall grey jets, and I'll buy just about any F-14 decal like that, including the JRs. I think the bottom line is that some schemes are just more popular for aesthetic and perhaps even cultural reasons. Another poster said that the JRs are popular because pirates are cool. Well, he may well be correct. This squadron also managed to survive being disestablished (at least its traditions and markings did), was in a motion picture, and in higher viz markings really stands out. I'd say that does it for most people. Oh, it also has a fairly long and interesting history. Put that all together and you get an iconic, popular livery. Robert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Julien (UK) Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Not EVERYONE likes the Jolly Rogers. I mean, they don't do photo-recce, so who cares about them? Larry Right on Larry! I have got to say though being a USN builder that I liked VF-84 Better before they were the Jolly Rogers when they had the F-8's with the flames. Julien Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Actually, VF-84 did become the Jolly Rogers after VF-61 was disestablished and just after VF-84 recieved the Crusader. But instead of sending the aircraft into the paint shop, they decided to not worry about changing the paint schemes until they recieved the F-4. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobrahistorian Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Gimme the SWORDSMEN any day! Not that the JRs dont have interesting paint schemes, I just think that there are plenty of squadrons out there with more interesting histories. Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hornet78 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 --> QUOTE(Henrik B @ Oct 28 2007, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I just don't get it at all. How can you be a "fan" of a squadron? Yes, if you work there you should have some pride in it, but to me it seems like being a fan of a specific fire department or something... Welllllll being a fireman we do have such fans. I think it's kind alike people who follow football, they like the color and logo's so they follow them. Heck even some high schoolers will sign with major college's becasue they like the colors. There's some kid back east who just signed a litter of intent with USC basketball for that very reason. FWIW Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Can't say that I have. I occasionally do IT work, but I don't hang around computer geeks all that much. Actually, it is kind of funny... Me either Brian but then again, I don't hang out at Best Buy ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LemonJello Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 If you have a "geek boner" for more than 4 hours.... Call all your friends and brag about it! On the serious side, well, I don't have a serious side, and I don't build USN aircraft, but sometimes squadron markings just click with people. I'm looking at building a few USMC airframes with the Fighting Shamrock markings on them, plus a couple with the Blacksheep markings...no real good reason, just that's what I want to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) I can't say that I personally find them very interesting. They just seem a bit overdone. I don't personally have a problem with the whole Jolly Rogers geek boner........different strokes for different folks (pun intended) :D They just don't appeal to me. Anytime I see a JR build, or a new product announcement that features JR, my general reaction is ho-hum. I just find a lack of originality when every single scheme the JR ever flew has been done by one decal manufacturer or another. JR builds rank up there with Showtime 100 and the "famous" Shamrock F-4J......it's been done.Personally, I like to see the original schemes on build, or at least the lesser known schemes. Could not agree more; I just want to add that it's not just the Jolly Rogers, but it's the hype surrounding the Jolly Rogers Tomcat. We don't see the number of Jolly Rogers Phantoms, Crusaders, Furies, Cougars, Bearcats, Hellcats or Corsairs built that we do Tomcats, so it's not just the squadron here. It's not that I'm uninterested in the JR, but the geekgasms that occur whenever someone shows off a JR Tomcat...from those one almost gets the impression that there was no naval aviation before or since the F-14 and no other squadrons in the fleet. It's Mooby and the hype surrounding them has turned me off to the whole thing. Perfect example... Swing wings/ Shoots a bigger missile than the Eagle ever did and still drops bombs and then you have all those cool 70's high vis scheams. Whats not to like. You can have all your boring ghost grey/Gunship grey F-15 till the cows come home, Nohtning and i mean nothing beats an old Highvis Gull grey over white JR bird from back in the day! Gull gray over white with black and gold trim? :o :o Yeah, those hi-vis schemes look cool, but they don't make any aircraft any better at it's job. Those boring ghost gray F-15s scored more kills than any JR Tomcat ever did and even a boring gunship gray F-15E scored a unique kill against a helicopter with an LGB. Those stories are far more interesting than a flashy tail scheme because there's history and there's substance instead of style. A hamburger wrapped in gold foil is still a hamburger. I say that not to get into a p!$$ing contest of F-X vs. F-Y (the quoted comment already did that), but I've found that trumping any fighter as being the best around simply because of the way it looks while ignoring the way it performs or its history is like going to an awesome town like New York, ignoring all the cool museums, landmarks, history and culture just to go down to the Today Show with a sign to try to get in Al Roker's background shot for a brief second on TV. But there's a silver lining to this JR phenomenon. I now pay closer attention to the subjects I choose to build and I'm putting more emphasis on aircraft with history (either in world events or a personal connection). True, I sometimes build specific aircraft based on the scheme they wore, it's fun. But even then I look for something that hasn't received a lot of attention before. So as a result it's caused me to grow as a modeler. Edited October 29, 2007 by Trigger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Not EVERYONE likes the Jolly Rogers. :o I mean, they don't do photo-recce, so who cares about them? :o Larry Not only did they do photo recce, they pioneered it for the Tomcat community Just because the camera system wasn't built into the nose and it didn't receive an "R" designation hardly excludes it from the job Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PNW_Modeler Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) geekgasms.....very offensive! :P Edited October 29, 2007 by paul.nortness Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomthegrom Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I like to think of it this way. The jolly rogers are like your standard beer that everyone knows and loves. Then there are squadrons like the be devillers. Also a nice tasty beer that is probably better but not that many people know about it. Beer and Tomcats :P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superhornet1015 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 HEHEHEHE....HEHEHEHE....HEHEHE....You said boner....HEHEHEHE....HEHEHE........ Actually, when I get my "geek boner" on, my wife's in trouble... :P I have to say that I really don't see what the hype is for VF-103,I do agree that their logo does in fact look reeallly cool,but, he has a point that it is done to a point where you see it and go "oh well" .................Sorry no offense to you 103 guys, as for me I like VFA-132 the Privateers( their old logo),and yes I know that they have been decommissioned . Anyway, everyone has their opinions both good and bad. It is a squadron that has a very proud and long history , you can't deny that. (their logo does look good on the superbug) superhornet1015 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 HI SO just whats wrong with the Jolly Rogers? Texas :P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Yeah, I know, VFA-132 markings look faaaaaaaabulous.................. of course these markings are better...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 geekgasms.....very offensive! :P Geekgasm A fit of intense geekly joy, happens when a geek runs into someone or something exceedingly geeky not seen every day, or when they get uber excited and riled up; When a geek goes into geekstcy, Has a geek-on; What makes a geek go crazy; When a geek has reached his or her geek climax.Examples used in a sentence... My Wii is coming, I think I'm going to have a geekgasm! I made Frank have a geekgasm by mentioning that Star Wars action figures were on sale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superhornet1015 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Hey Johnopfor, You know it brother. :huh: They both look good. :D superhornet1015 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Yeah, I know, VFA-132 markings look faaaaaaaabulous.................. of course these markings are better...... Actually John, I prefer the "Buccaneers" VFA-132 markings myself ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Rat Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 8 pages on this already?! SHEESH! All he asked was a simple question, he didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition... :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fuji Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) Jolly Rogers - Skull and Bones - Its all about being a Bad*** - A person that is not scared of anything, even Death for that person is also a harbinger of Death itself. That was the idea of course and pretty effective for VF-17 in WW II. It all started with LCdr. Tommy Blackburn when he wanted something sinister for his Corsair squadron's insignia. After a host of suggestions, Blackburn himself selected The Jolly Rogers because it was nautical, it was bad*** and their aircraft's name was also a reference to piracy. Pirates were nonconformists, broke societies rules, snubbed and gave the finger to authority and were certainly the harbingers of death on the high seas during the fifteen and sixteen hundreds. Because of their devil may care attitutes and their I'll do what I want when I want ways, they are very attractive "rolemodel" in any conformist society. It certainly worked for Blackburn's squadron that was also known at times as Blackburn's Irregulars for their Devil may care attitudes and snubbing of navy regulations. Unfortunately "The Look" is a bit overdone today. Kind of reminds me of the punk scene. Punks dressed and acted the way they did to make a statement and set them apart from Suzy Q. Homemaker - They were on the edge, ticked off and dangerous. Then people looked at them and said - Hey That's Cool! I wanna be like them. And so they started to emulate the punk look, but really couldn't take the punk lifestyle. So what did these wannabes give us? EMO! Just like the Jolly Rogers Mafia today. :D Jolly Rogers Then: Jolly Rogers Today: "If you wanna be one of the non-conformists, all you have to do is dress just like us and listen to the same music we do" Edited October 29, 2007 by Fuji Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I can say in my defense that I became a lifelong Jolly Rogers fan long before I knew anyone else had ever heard of them. It was perhaps a quarter of a century ago, when I was in middle school...I was just becoming acquainted with the concept of different paint schemes and nicknames for different F-14 squadrons in the Squadron Signal book my dad had given me for Christmas... ...and I still remember turning the page and seeing the most beautiful paint scheme I'd ever seen on a warplane. I kept coming back to it over and over...it was sealed in my mind. It was love at first sight. Despite being a straight male, I did have some sewing abilities, and managed to make a somewhat crude yet convincing copy of the squadron patch, which I wore on my denim jacket until I managed to acquire a real copy via military surplus. As a teacher my students still identify me with the logo, including one summer teaching flutes at band camp (no jokes about that, please :) ) when we designed the logo you see as my avatar, the skull and crossed flutes. So, at least you can see I wasn't just following the pack...it was all on my own! :huh: :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fishwelding Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) The discussion parallels the "Why all the Luftwaffe stuff?" question. The answers here often amount to "interesting, colorful" schemes, and some sort of vague appreciation for an 'underdog" or "rebel," however dubious the latter claim might be. Critics might also charge that in both cases (the Tomcat and the Luftwaffe), the subject is overrated. Either way, it boils down to something not subject to rational explanation. I'm an F-101 fan, but I can't really tell you why in rational terms, beyond several concepts built into the airplane, an equal appreciation of its cousin the F-4, and that it "looks cool." Rail fans often have favorite Railroads, that become the subject of their model train layout. And for an example of High Geekery, there was that whole "Boba Fett" cult of the 1990s. Luckily third-rate writing and bad acting in the subsequent Star Wars films seems to have deflated at least some of that. Edited October 29, 2007 by Fishwelding Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Henrik B Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 ;)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Henrik B @ Oct 28 2007, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't get it at all. How can you be a "fan" of a squadron? Yes, if you work there you should have some pride in it, but to me it seems like being a fan of a specific fire department or something... Welllllll being a fireman we do have such fans. I think it's kind alike people who follow football, they like the color and logo's so they follow them. Heck even some high schoolers will sign with major college's becasue they like the colors. There's some kid back east who just signed a litter of intent with USC basketball for that very reason. FWIW Jim Fans, as in "Well, NYFD is great, but the Fire Department in New Jersey doesn't do anything for me."? You learn something new everyday... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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