chuck540z3 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) Chuck, How are you using TheDetailer? I tried using it on the 109 wheel wells I'm working on, and it seems its either too much, or too light. Could we have one of your brief tutorials on how best to use it? I am using it over a gloss varnish, btw. Stephen Hi Stephen. I think that last line is your problem, because unlike ProModeler wash, you don't need a gloss finish, although it will work on shiny surfaces if you do the following: 1) I apply the Black Detailer fairly thick, straight from the bottle, even on a rough finish like flat paint. Let it dry a bit, maybe 5 minutes or so until you see it get a bit dull. 2) With a bowl of warm water, dip a small clean paint brush into the water and then onto the wash. This will thin the wash and make it semi-transparent. Work the brush around and keep dabbing the brush onto a shop towel to take the wash out of the brush, as you thin the wash on the part you are weathering. 3) Depending on how dirty you want the part to look, pull off as much or as little wash as you want by repeating the above, as you get the brush wet with water again, brush the part, then wipe the excess off. 4) Let everything dry, maybe only 20 minutes, then use a wet microbrush to redistribute the wash into crooks and crannies and to remove some of it where it's too thick. 5) If you take too much of the wash off, no problem, just add some more and repeat. Of course all of the above takes some practice, but sooner or later you will love this stuff because it is so flexible, even weeks after it has dried. Unlike ProModeler wash, this stuff is an acrylic and it behaves a lot like thinned liquid mask. Here are some examples of this stuff on shiny and rough surfaces, although you will want to hit the the wash with dull coat on those areas that aren't supposed to shine, because it does dry with a slight sheen.... Gear well before plumbing.... For this shiny surface, I only want the wash in the rib recesses.... Same thing in the cockpit... For this gloss surface, only in the rivet holes.... Hope this helps. Edited December 14, 2012 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephencraig Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) Thanks Chuck! I was kind of doing variations of the way you described, but not in that order. I'll try again tonight in the sequence you desribe. Thanks for the tutorial. Stephen Edited December 14, 2012 by stephencraig Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Looking at that P-47 pic there are a couple things of note, first the aft tray, note the marks left by the rounds rubbing off the paint. Second the trays have rollers on the vertical seperator plates, to help belts move along since it's the internal workings of the guns that draw the belt in. The P-51 loading chart seems to indicate rollers: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/4855281276_dc7e58fe63_o.jpg and this photo: http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/p-51/pages/caf_lh_gunbay_out.shtml shows a close up of a roller that leads into the gun bay. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CF104 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Looking at that P-47 pic there are a couple things of note, first the aft tray, note the marks left by the rounds rubbing off the paint. Second the trays have rollers on the vertical seperator plates, to help belts move along since it's the internal workings of the guns that draw the belt in. The P-51 loading chart seems to indicate rollers: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/4855281276_dc7e58fe63_o.jpg and this photo: http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/p-51/pages/caf_lh_gunbay_out.shtml shows a close up of a roller that leads into the gun bay. Jari Although this is a very small photo it also indicates the rollers on the vertical bay separators in the P-51 ammunition bays. Click Here Cheers, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) Thanks guys for all the gun bay tips! Don't worry about them any more, because I may have a surprise that just might work out, so stay tuned! Now that the gear bay is finally finished (Whew!), it's time to cement it in on the lower wing half. This part is the core of the build and it needs to be strong, especially since the landing gear screws into it and the fuselage sits on top. As I do whenever I can, I put a nice goopy seam of CA glue along all seams on the back where you can't see them. This allows me to use regular plastic glue sparingly, so that I don't get any glue marks in the gear bay itself. Once the glue has hardened, you can put on the reinforcement bar, Part B-15, into place.... Now a neat gluing trick I mentioned earlier that I learned in Nick Turner's build of this same kit. Like many modelers, when I had to glue a long difficult seam like a long wing, I used to quickly apply glue to the entire surface, then try to mash the parts together before the first glue that I applied dried, which can be only seconds. Further, I scrambled to get clamps and bits of tape to hold everything together, which usually meant that some areas didn't get glued very well. After everything dried, I fill the gaps with putty, which can be tricky on the thin edges of a wing. Using the "Turner Method", you apply Tamiya Extra Thin cement to a small area- maybe an inch at a time, push the parts together and tape or clamp it, then use an old #11 knife blade to hold open a gap along the seam right behind the tape. Glue this area and tape it again, then repeat. The best part is that I now TAKE MY TIME and get everything glued, not just most of it..... I found that the knife blade often would fall into the wing, so I used some tape on the end of it to keep it out of trouble as I moved along the seam.... When everything is glued, taped and clamped, you let it dry for about 1/2 hour.... Then remove the tape so that it doesn't weld to the plastic. Here you want an oozing and fairly messy edge, because the melted plastic is your "putty" to close the gap when dry. I also fixed a panel line while I was at it with more thinned putty... You may recall that I was going to have the Aires guns go right through to the front of the wing, but the ends of the guns had too big of a hole for the muzzle, so I went back with the kit gun tips instead. Here they benefit from a little surgery to open them up on the left..... Fantastic work. I like the separated trim tab on the rudder, it's a small detail but it's quite visible. If you can, you should get rid of the square access door seen just in front of the windshield (slightly to the left if you're in the cockpit). This access door came with the P-51D-20 block, before that in order to get to the hydraulic reservoir you had to take off the whole panel in front of the windshield. As requested, with the Dzus fasteners re-punched with a rivet tool after sanding.... I almost forgot to add back those darn weld seams I sanded off. This could be a lot of fun or a pain in the ..... :unsure: Thanks for checking in! Edited December 18, 2012 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anders_Isaksson Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Not much to say about this but excellent progress, Chuck! Looking forward to see what you have in mind for the gunbays... :) Also, thanks for sharing the Turner method of gluing. I will have to try this myself soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shawn M Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 agreed, great work and good tip/how to on the "turner method". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RiderFan Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Looks outstanding!. I really wish my eyes were still good enough to let me do that sort of work. I have so many magnifying glasses and loupes stuck to my head I look like the guy from 'Blade Runner' that made the eyeballs... but I still can't get that level of detail and clarity. thanks David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 I really wish my eyes were still good enough to let me do that sort of work. I have so many magnifying glasses and loupes stuck to my head I look like the guy from 'Blade Runner' that made the eyeballs... but I still can't get that level of detail and clarity. thanks David Thanks David. In the pic above, I hadn't hit the side wall with dull coat yet, which is why it remains shiny, partly due to The Detailer wash. That notch in the cable on the bottom is required for the seat to sit flush, otherwise the cockpit is swelled causing a poor fit. Here it is again with a shot of dull coat, knocking down the shine of things like the canvas bag with the flare gun. I think I captured the worn plywood look of the floor pretty well..... For close-up vision, I have a pair of glasses especially made for me with the bottom part of my regular progressive lens on the top and magnifiers (3 X) on the bottom as a bifocal. This way I can clearly see stuff from 2 inches to about a foot away with no problem. Of course beyond a foot I need to switch back to my regular progressive lenses, so I'm usually switching back and forth as I look at reference pics on my computer monitor about 2 feet away. It sucks to get old! :lol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel111 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Chuck, just had another look at you gear well and cockpit work... simply UNBELIEVABLE stuff! You are way ahead of me with your hydraulic line and wire work. The cockpit seat also looks absolutely real... and kinda reminds me of some old tractor seats I used to sit in when I was little. Marcel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Chuck, just had another look at you gear well and cockpit work... simply UNBELIEVABLE stuff! You are way ahead of me with your hydraulic line and wire work. The cockpit seat also looks absolutely real... and kinda reminds me of some old tractor seats I used to sit in when I was little. Marcel Thanks Buddy! I appreciate your comments, especially since I have so much respect for your builds! Now a little back-tracking- AGAIN! Remember those weld seams I sanded off earlier? Well, I added them back, but this time I used plain old putty in a thin strip laid down between tape. It came out a little jagged, just like a real weld, so maybe after some light sanding it's better than the original? Final paint will tell if it did.... With the wings assembled, I tried a little dry fitting to the fuselage. Not bad, but there's a raised gap at the wing root, that can be sanded down from the top I suppose.... Checking some other builds, they have it too, so I investigated the cause. It turns out that the wing seam is raised only about 1 mm if you glue the bottom of the wing to the top of the gear bay (which you really should). Note how thin it is at the front, where the raised wing fit is the worst... While the fuselage join is about 1 1/2 mm. Not much more, but it's still thicker, causing the raised gap... Using a sanding stick to erode the bottom edge of the fuselage join from the bottom about 1/2 mm..... The kit parts now fit just about perfect, without sanding any of the top detail off.... You could almost paint the wing and fuselage separately then attach them later, the fit is now that good. I have noticed that other builds sometimes use sprue to widen the fuselage a bit to attain this type of fit to the wings, but the Barracuda sidewalls and other resin junk I stuffed into the cockpit seem to have swelled the fuselage just enough without it. I want to leave off the ailerons, rudder, elevators and flaps until the end, because they are already painted and I won't have to mask them off. The flaps, however, need to be inserted into the wing before the lower intake is glued in, but unlike what the instructions tell you (and a few other documented builds), they can still be left off after attaching the wing to the fuselage, to aid with painting where the intake goes and the top of the intake itself. It takes a little maneuvering, but it can be done without scratching the paint. This shot shows my new "weld" on the wing root from another angle... Even with a dry fitted wing, this bird is starting to look like a MUSTANG! I've attached the main gear legs temporarily to keep the gear doors from hitting the bottom. With supplied screws and nuts, this is really easy to do without compromising the future fit and strength... Thanks for checking in. Edited December 20, 2012 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesniF-16 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Coming along beautifully Chuck! Very clever fix on the wing root fit-up :thumbsup:/> "Remember those weld seams I sanded off earlier? Well, I added them back, but this time I used plain old putty in a thin strip laid down between tape. It came out a little jagged, just like a real weld, so maybe after some light sanding it's better than the original?" Since I am a welder, I would like to think that my weld seams are all perfectly smooth and straight.... :sarcasm_on:/> Amazing attention to detail right there! /Jesse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Coming along beautifully Chuck! Very clever fix on the wing root fit-up "Remember those weld seams I sanded off earlier? Well, I added them back, but this time I used plain old putty in a thin strip laid down between tape. It came out a little jagged, just like a real weld, so maybe after some light sanding it's better than the original?" Since I am a welder, I would like to think that my weld seams are all perfectly smooth and straight.... Amazing attention to detail right there! /Jesse Thanks Jesse. John (CF104) supplied us with some really good pics of the welds from Prime Portal below (click on them twice for full resolution) My putty line isn't too far off this pic.... Front weld And the rear seam is fairly rough.... Rear weld They look a little messy to me, which is perfect since my new ones are too! Edited December 20, 2012 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesniF-16 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Oh man! Yer putty welds are spot on Chuck :woot.gif:/> /Jesse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shawn M Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 great fitment on the major sub assemblies! Starting to come together quick now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Just sick! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KRI76 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 OMG! What an astonishing work you're (once again) doing! Spectacular! I cannot wait till you start painting this beauty... /Kristian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Wolstenholme Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Chuck, clearly there is more than one Merlin involved here, impressive work on all aspects of this build, so far. Why do people say so far, you will obviously continue in this vein to the conclusion. You do have me a little worried regarding the 0.5 calibre rounds problem! Like Marcel I am not a prop person, but if anybody was going to convert me it would be you. Thank goodness for digital cameras. You might have otherwise saved Kodak. Best Wishes for Xmas. John Edited December 21, 2012 by John Wolstenholme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnS Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 ... Why do people say so far, you will obviously continue in this vein to the conclusion. You do have me a little worried regarding the 0.5 calibre rounds problem! ... We all know you can't keep up this level of quality & detail. - just kidding! Awesome work as always Chuck. I'm looking forward to seeing what you're planning for the gun/ammunition bays, as well. BTW, you've sold me on using pre-mixed washes. I've just ordered a number of different coloured washes from Sprue Brothers, to use on my Tomcat. Great service as usual from Sprue Brothers. I ordered the washes today, and was advised this afternoon that the order has been shipped. Thanks for the Christmas wishes in my Tomcat thread. Here's wishing all the best to you and your family for the Holiday Season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 So, I'm trying to help Chuck out with a solution to the .50 cal problem. I've got good dimensioned drawings for the actual shells, but haven't really been able to find any definitive answer to overall belt dimensions. Does anyone know what the spacing would be *between* the shells? Or what the overall belt length would be? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carson Lomax Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 So, I'm trying to help Chuck out with a solution to the .50 cal problem. I've got good dimensioned drawings for the actual shells, but haven't really been able to find any definitive answer to overall belt dimensions. Does anyone know what the spacing would be *between* the shells? Or what the overall belt length would be? According to http://books.google.com/books?id=SfwqCTY9I6MC&lpg=PA40&ots=hOJHYw_VFZ&dq=p-51%20ammunition%20load&pg=PA40#v=onepage&q=p-51%20ammunition%20load&f=false The inboard guns ammo belts held 400 rds each while the middle and outboard guns held 270 rds each. Total ammo loadout was 1880 rds. Just from looking at pictures of the ammo belts I'd say the spacing is about 1.5" to 2" center-to-center. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted December 26, 2012 Author Share Posted December 26, 2012 (edited) So, I'm trying to help Chuck out with a solution to the .50 cal problem. I've got good dimensioned drawings for the actual shells, but haven't really been able to find any definitive answer to overall belt dimensions. Does anyone know what the spacing would be *between* the shells? Or what the overall belt length would be? Hi Mikey! Thanks for trying to help out. Using the Tamiya belts as a guide, there are 41-42 shells over 34.5 mm, with each shell 4 mm in length. The spacing between the shells is about 1/2 the width of each shell. Hopefully this gives you the dimensions you need because no matter what the real deal has for dimensions, if it doesn't fit in the Tamiya kit shell trays, it's useless. For those wondering what Mike is up to, he is trying to manufacture some shells for me using CAD 3D drawings and businesses that "print" these drawings into brass or steel. If we can get it right, Mike will have a pretty unique source for you guys if you're interested in buying a set or two- or at least that's the plan. Time will tell if it works. Since I'm yakking here anyway, here's a brief update. With the wings assembled and glued, Part A-8 must be glued into place on the bottom of the fuselage. The fit of this part is tricky, because it is placed at the junction of the bottom of the engine and the landing gear bay, while still attaching to the wings. With 3 different surfaces to mate to, there are bound to be some fit issues. Here is this part glued after lots of tweaking on the right, with the magnetic engine bottom on the left. There should be a bit of a gap here to allow for the engine cowling fitment, but this one is too big on the starboard side as opposed the the left port side...... After sanding down the new part and removing the paint, which was only there for demo purposes anyway, the gap is much better. Note the requirement for some putty at the fuselage join..... I then replaced the Dzus fasteners on the bottom that I sanded off, using a rivet tool. Since I could not simply push the tool into the plastic without dislodging the delicate part, I heated the tip of the tool in a candle and gently "branded" a new fastener by melting one instead. The carbon from the candle helps to locate where the new fasteners are located..... In preparation for painting I need to hide a lot of stuff on the bottom.... Using 2 cut portions of Part G-9 for the gear bay in the wheels up position, I "glued" them in place using ordinary liquid mask along the edges of the gear bay. The magnetic engine cowlings are then used to close in the engine, then masked off. One note, however, is that with the gear doors glued into place like my build, the lower cowling barely clears the doors, so it must be sanded slightly at the rear to give sufficient clearance. I also reamed out the nylon nuts in the engine to give the pins on the rear of the cowling more clearance. Otherwise, you might break the thin plastic cowling by pulling it out, because the fit is VERY tight. Note the nice clean cowling to fuselage join at the rear, due to the efforts above.... There's lots to hide on the top too. I was hoping that the magnetic piece at the front of the gear legs would be sufficient without gluing, but as you can see, the gaps are too large on either side. It looks like I'll have to get the gear legs completed and installed first, before I glue these parts properly.... So using the engine cowlings again and the gun bay doors glued in with more liquid mask and masking tape.... You are finally ready for painting..... As I use on all of my builds, I like to fashion a small box with pipe insulation on the top edges covered with shop towels. This keeps the gear doors off the ground and lifts the model up near your eyes for further work. I use this box to paint the model in my paint booth, without the requirement to handle the model at all. The shop towels with foam backing provide a cushioned and smooth surface and when they get dirty, I just replace them.... Same thing when you need to flip the model over to work on the bottom. With a few tape bits for the bottom of the gun bay slots, we are finally good to go to the paint booth! I LOVE painting, because this is what separates the robotic modelers from the artists. I'm not claiming I'm an artist-yet-but I strive to be one one day.... Edited December 29, 2012 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted December 26, 2012 Author Share Posted December 26, 2012 (edited) After one fine coat of Krylon gloss black lacquer. This paint not only provides a surface for future coats of Alclad to bite into, it also reveals all the flaws you thought that you fixed earlier, like that little door in front of the wind screen and a gap at the fuselage join- both easy fixes at this early stage. Not everything is negative after a primer coat. Those Dzus fastener rivet circles that I replaced earlier after sanding in front of the wind screen look pretty good..... But it also reveals that my "puttied wings" aren't so full of putty after all. Almost every rivet and panel line is still visible, although not as much as the non-puttied gun bay door at the top right for contrast...... I expected some of the rivets and a few panel lines to still show through, which is also "accurate", since with heavy use much of the putty was compressed into this detail. I was just hoping that it was a bit more subtle and I can already see the deduction at a model contest for "Inconsistent Panel Lines"! :bandhead2:/>/>/>/>/> Oh well, I'll just have to note that I tried to make it look this way (mostly) and I'll back-off on any weathering washes into the wing detail and make sure that everything else gets the full treatment to provide contrast. Thanks for checking in once again. Edited December 27, 2012 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) One last thing I should have mentioned earlier. I am air-brushing in my paint booth in an unheated garage with an outside temperature of -20 C degrees- not exactly ideal painting temperatures! Even though I keep everything, including my air compressor, paints and airbrush inside just before painting, the paint tends to thicken- hence the slightly pebbly finish above. I do use a couple of space heaters which help a lot, but at -20 C, it doesn't get much more than freezing. I love Canada, but not so much in the winter! While annoying, this is not a big deal at this early stage of painting, because I plan on fixing flaws then re-sanding everything again with 1500- 2000 grit sandpaper once the paint is really dry, then doing some touch ups. Painting in a cold garage while using enamels has actually been a benefit in the past, because the paint tends to lay flat before it even thinks of drying due to the chilly temperatures. The Krylon lacquer dries super fast, even when cold, so you will get the dreaded orange peel when temps are not exactly warm. Not to worry. Here is my last paint finish using Krylon as a primer on my F-4E at about the same temperatures last winter. Pretty nice and smooth if I do say myself. I will also be employing some "salt weathering" to achieve the same mottled effect on the metal surfaces, which on this build, is just about everything! Edited December 27, 2012 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zaxos345 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Great Chuck, as always!!! Cant wait to see the painting process, good luck with that my friend. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.