Jump to content
ARC Discussion Forums
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
Mstor

Notre Dame in Paris is burning

Recommended Posts

Very sad!  Sorry to see it!

Hope something will be saved of it.

 

Gabor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All that history gone, what a huge loss.  A very sad thing to see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Agreed, so sad. 

Have ya seen pictures of the one in Cologne, Germany right after the War?? (Goggle it.) The effort the Allies went thru to NOT hit it with bombs!!  Photos show the city in rubble and that beautiful Cathedral still pretty much intact!!  It did take some hits, tho.

These beautiful Cathedrals took so long to build, destroyed in hours!!

 

Bo

Edited by jabow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so saddened by this.

Allot of the craftsmanship used to build it are lost arts now...

 

-Gregg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dang, looks like trying to save it ends up destroying it.

Quote

By Brigit Katz
September 1, 2017
Notre-Dame de Paris cuts an imposing figure over France’s capital, but look closely and you’ll see that the building is in dire need of repairs. Its stones are eroding. Its delicate buttresses are in danger of collapsing. Many of its snarling gargoyles are so corroded that they have been whisked out of sight, replaced by PVC pipes. In a bid to save the iconic cathedral, the archbishop of Paris has launched a fundraising campaign for the building’s restoration, as Reuters reports.

...

Notre-Dame’s decline can be attributed to weather and age—after all, the foundation for the cathedral was laid in 1163—but the main culprit is pollution, which wears away at the building’s stone, writes Vivienne Walt of TIME. Things have gotten so bad that cathedral officials have set up a so-called “stone cemetery” for chunks of masonry that have fallen from the building.

 

In reality, however, the current issues plaguing Notre Dame are only the latest in a long line of indignities. As Walt points out, rioting Huguenots attacked the cathedral during the 16th century, destroying features they believed were idolatrous. Later, during the French Revolution, mobs smashed 28 statues of monarchs that adorned the building’s interior. In his 1831 novel, The Hunchback of Notre-Dame, Victor Hugo lamented the state of disrepair into which the cathedral had fallen.

more...

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/notre-dame-desperate-need-repairs-180964719/

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very sad to watch. So much history and such a part of Paris. My wife and I toured it a few years ago while visiting France. It will be missed...

 

.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

According to officials, the main structure has been saved, though much of the cathedral was destroyed including all the wood roof. They did manage to save many of the art works and artifacts, but I am sure much was lost. France vows to rebuild and is starting a country wide campaign to gather the funds necessary. I have no doubt that many countries and individuals will want to contribute to the restoration. This is a tragic blow to France and to the world in general. Notre Dame was  not only of religious significance, but an historical, architectural and artistic landmark. 

 

Correction: Two thirds of the roof was destroyed by fire, not all of it. I saw picks on TV this morning from inside and much of it remain relatively intact, though you could definitely see the areas that were completely burned out.

Edited by Mstor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paris, the city and her citizens are taking quite some hits this decade.

 

I bet Rome has plenty of money to restore the church.

It will be a better one, 3D-printed and lots of WIFI.

 

It sure will turn out okay..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Restoration work on really old wooden things can be a bit chancy when imperfect humans are involved.

This from 2007/8 comes to mind,

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/vacuum-cleaner-caused-10m-cutty-sark-fire-as-guard-slept-6872360.html

Quote

 

The fire that devastated the historic tea clipper the Cutty Sark could have been caught earlier if security guards had been patrolling the ship properly and one of them had not been asleep in a café, it was revealed today.

The £10 million blaze was sparked by an industrial vacuum cleaner which had been left on for two days, an official report concluded.

Police and fire investigators found the Italian-made machinery had become blocked and probably caught fire after it had been accidentally left switched on during the weekend before the blaze erupted.

However, the investigation into what caused the fire revealed sloppy management of the renovation project and security guards who failed to do their job properly.

 

And in 2014, fire Again ... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-29680243

Quote

 

Twenty firefighters were called to the ship in Greenwich, south-east London, at 07:21 BST and put the fire out within an hour.

In 2007, damage that cost £10m to repair was caused by a blaze while the ship was undergoing a £25m restoration.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, cag_200 said:

Paris, the city and her citizens are taking quite some hits this decade.

 

I bet Rome has plenty of money to restore the church.

It will be a better one, 3D-printed and lots of WIFI.

 

It sure will turn out okay..

 

One would hope that the church will put up generous funds, but they do not own the church anymore. It is owned by the city of Paris I believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the pictures of the blaze last nigh I would have thought that everything inside was gutted.

 

But it seems that the inner stone roof stood up to the fire with only parts of it collapsing to the floor. So a lot was saved, together with all the artefacts which were rescued in time by brave firemen.

 

At least there is some good side to this dramatic story! I was not so optimistic last night.

 

Best regards

Gabor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 The restoration crew pulled a lot of artifacts out previous to working on the building. I watched video of them taking the copper statues down off the spire Friday.

 

 I found one of the more interesting questions that came up in the aftermath is where to get the lumber to rebuild the roof. People don't let trees grow that tall any more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

But it seems that the inner stone roof stood up to the fire with only parts of it collapsing to the floor. So a lot was saved, together with all the artefacts which were rescued in time by brave firemen.

 

I saw that too. The stone vaults, for the most part, stood up to the fire and all the water pouring down on them. The area that collapsed is where the spire crashed down. Amazingly, the statues at the very back, the altar I would think, look like they came through with minimal damage too. It will now be up to the recovery and restorations crews to erect some sort of protection for the stone vaults to protect them from weather as there is no more roof over most of it.

 

1 hour ago, WymanV said:

I found one of the more interesting questions that came up in the aftermath is where to get the lumber to rebuild the roof. People don't let trees grow that tall any more.

 

I believe I heard somewhere that trees were planted long ago to have replacement lumber for the cathedral. Kinda like how the British Admiralty planted Oak trees for their ships of the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, WymanV said:

 The restoration crew pulled a lot of artifacts out previous to working on the building. I watched video of them taking the copper statues down off the spire Friday.

 

 I found one of the more interesting questions that came up in the aftermath is where to get the lumber to rebuild the roof. People don't let trees grow that tall any more.

Maybe they'll rebuild it with more.flame retardant metal frame?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Few years ago there was a fascinating TV program about the structure of Motre Dame and the interesting architectural solutions used during construction. Weight and height of the roof structure was a crucial part in design. If I remember right those iconic outer support structures were exactly because of this.

 

Concrete and steel is not a real alternative to wood due to its weight. (Have to add that I am not an architect) I am sure they will find a way to do it. It is fact that nowadays there are no forests with such trees and in the required quantity. We will see.

 

Best regards

Gabor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In honour of Notre Dame it should be pronounced the 8th wonder of the world. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though it was not as heavily damaged the fire at York Cathedral and the subsequent restoration should give the French some ideas.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 4/16/2019 at 4:17 AM, Mstor said:

According to officials, the main structure has been saved, though much of the cathedral was destroyed including all the wood roof. They did manage to save many of the art works and artifacts, but I am sure much was lost. France vows to rebuild and is starting a country wide campaign to gather the funds necessary. I have no doubt that many countries and individuals will want to contribute to the restoration. This is a tragic blow to France and to the world in general. Notre Dame was  not only of religious significance, but an historical, architectural and artistic landmark. 

 

Correction: Two thirds of the roof was destroyed by fire, not all of it. I saw picks on TV this morning from inside and much of it remain relatively intact, though you could definitely see the areas that were completely burned out.

 

Good Evening,

 

According to the firemen who fought the fire, when the fire started to attack the towers, they estimated that if they weren't able to save them, all the cathedral will be lost.

A campaign for to gather funds has been launched. But people linked with the luxury business and big companies have already promised to offer huge amounts.

If you know France, you won't be surprised if I tell you that polemics have started. 🙄
 

 

On 4/16/2019 at 4:44 PM, Mstor said:

 

One would hope that the church will put up generous funds, but they do not own the church anymore. It is owned by the city of Paris I believe.

 

To my knowledge, and due to the "1905 law about seperation of the Churches and the State", religious buildings built before 1905 belong the the state or the cities. Normal churches are owned by the cities and cathedrals are owned by the State. So works of servicing and restauration are supposed to be done by the state/city. (I said "supposed", huh !...)

Buildings built after 1905 are owned by their respective churches and servicing or restauration is supposed to be done by them.

So, the cathedral Notre-Dame of Paris belongs to the state.

 

On 4/16/2019 at 5:39 PM, ya-gabor said:

Looking at the pictures of the blaze last nigh I would have thought that everything inside was gutted.

 

But it seems that the inner stone roof stood up to the fire with only parts of it collapsing to the floor. So a lot was saved, together with all the artefacts which were rescued in time by brave firemen.

 

At least there is some good side to this dramatic story! I was not so optimistic last night.

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

When firemen were fighting the fire, a team composed of firemen and their chaplain went inside the building for to try to save the most masterworks and relics they can. Amongs the relics, the Crown of Thorns.
At the top of the small tower (we call it "une flèche", literally "an arrow") which collapsed, there was a rooster on a weather vane. Initially, we feared that it was lost. But somebody supected that it didn't falled into the flames and managed to find it, only battered.

That "flèche" is not an original middle-age part, but was created by Eugène Violet-Leduc, who conducted restoration works in the XIXth century.

 

On 4/17/2019 at 8:08 PM, Britaholic said:

Though it was not as heavily damaged the fire at York Cathedral and the subsequent restoration should give the French some ideas.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

If they could respect the original look, it should be great.

 

JP

 

Edited by Jan-Pawel
minor correction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what in your opinion needs to be moderated? I'm not seeing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it was the reference to the current POTUS.

 

Other than that, there are some informative posts in this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alternative 4 said:

I guess it was the reference to the current POTUS.

Other than that, there are some informative posts in this thread.

He was part of the news coverage and the conversation in that reference to the possibility of using water drops from aerial tankers, and as it happened, some local spectators were reported as asking the same question.

The reply to that suggestion forms more of that informative content,

Quote

 

But authorities are unable to drop water from the cathedral from the air, for fear of destroying what is left of Notre Dame and injuring people nearby.

Explaining why this approach hasn’t been used, Le Monde explains: “A Canadair projects about 6 tonnes of water at high speed to the ground: the danger is significant of hurting one or more people around the building – which is why Canadair interventions are so infrequent in urban and peri-urban areas.

“Such an intervention could also significantly destroy the little remaining structure of the cathedral.”

 

 

https://nytimespost.com/why-water-is-not-being-dropped-on-notre-dame-from-above-during-huge-fire/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you, that's why I mentionned Don... (Ooops !) "You-know-who" ! 😉

 

2 other reasons why the use of Canadair CL-415 was rejected is that :

- regulations concerning flights over Paris can make their use difficult,

- these planes are based in the South of France, where forest fires happen usually, and to reach the capital may take few hours (and firemen didn't had time).

 

JP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...